What is there to be happy about if half of the PhDs become 'officials'?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: 50% of PhDs working in state management agencies, as civil servants and public employees, that is not a good thing.

According to the National Agency for Science and Technology Information (Ministry of Science and Technology), as of 2016, our country had more than 24,000 PhDs. Meanwhile, according to statistics from the Ministry of Education and Training, the number of PhDs working in universities and colleges is about 15,000 people.

Thus, nearly 50% of PhDs are working as officials and civil servants. Is this a good or worrying number? What is the relationship between officials and PhDs? Is a PhD a good condition for promotion? This is the content of the conversation between VOV reporter and Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet - former Vice Chairman of the National Assembly's Committee on Culture, Education, Youth and Children.

The value of a PhD is declining.

PV:Dear Professor, for a country with a tradition of learning like Vietnam, having someone with a PhD would certainly be a great source of pride for the family, clan, and even the village?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: Certainly, although the number of PhDs is very large now, for each family, each clan it is a great joy and honor.

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet

PV:It is clear that a doctorate is a very proud and honorable degree. However, in recent years, the doctorate is being viewed very differently, it can be said that the value of this degree is seriously declining in Vietnam. Why is that, sir?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: This statement is correct and can be said to be a very sad thing, although we must affirm that currently, many young people with doctoral degrees abroad as well as defending their doctoral theses in the country are very capable people, many of whom are more capable than our generation. But the majority today can be said to have poor capacity. Why the "price" of a doctoral degree has decreased like that is because we only focus on quantity, not quality; training work is lax, and can even be said to have been lax for a long time. To regain the value of a doctoral degree, it is necessary to rectify training work.

PV:According to common understanding, people with PhD degrees, Associate Professor and Professor titles often do scientific research and teaching work. However, nearly 50% of PhDs are civil servants and public employees. In your opinion, is this number good or worrying?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: Regarding the figures given by the Ministry of Science and Technology, I do not know whether they have deducted those with retired doctorates or not. So, up to 50% of the number of doctors working in state management agencies, as civil servants, is not a good thing. Because we train doctors to do scientific research, to teach at university level, not to become officials. To become an official, to become a civil servant, it is not necessary to have a doctorate degree.

I remember working with the Australian Senate delegation in 2003, the Office of the National Assembly introduced me, a member of the Australian parliamentary delegation expressed concern about the number of PhDs and professors in the Vietnamese National Assembly. I think his comment was sincere, but in fact, to be active in politics, it is not necessary to have a PhD, the academic titles of Professor and Associate Professor to confer on those who work in teaching.

Study for a doctorate to become an official

PV:In the report on the situation of civil servants and public employees of local agencies and units, the percentage of PhDs is mentioned as a strength of that agency or unit, while the capacity and work efficiency of those PhDs are still unknown. Is it true that the assessment of high or low quality cadres through their resumes and titles is being given more importance than actual work efficiency, sir?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: This is a reality in our country today. Of course, if we want to select and appoint officials, we must base it on their level of education. But if we only rely on diplomas and "pieces of paper" it is not enough, we must also evaluate the actual capacity of the officials. I think that in public agencies, agencies that are not scientific research units or training units, we should perhaps stop praising the number of PhDs and masters. We should continue in that direction, that is, encouraging people to get postgraduate degrees to become officials.

PV:The confusion between cadres and PhDs has existed for a long time in our country, becoming an inertia that is difficult to change, is that right, sir?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: In my opinion, it has a long-standing tradition. In the past, people went to school and also studied for a doctorate to become an official. Now we have a confusion between a degree for scientific research and a degree for becoming an official, which leads to this situation. But in the past, people studied for a doctorate to become an official, to study governance policies, economic development policies, etc. Now, we study for a doctorate to do scientific research, not to become an official like in the past. Therefore, we must absolutely not consider having a doctorate or master's degree as a condition for recruitment or appointment; we must upgrade the civil service, except for officials in scientific research and training agencies.

PV:In your opinion, can a person handle both public and scientific responsibilities well?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: There may be people who can do that, but in my opinion, it is very difficult to take on both roles. During my time as a National Assembly Delegate, I had to supervise graduate students, teach, grade theses, etc. I had to work extremely hard. I think if I had free time to do only one thing, it would be better.

Postgraduate degree cannot be a “plus point” for appointment and recruitment

PV:Is this the root cause of the current state of Vietnam's science being "both lacking and weak"?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: There are many reasons, not just the matter of training and then using it for other purposes, training PhDs not for scientific research but to become officials. However, this is also a reason. Perhaps this work needs to be rectified, with purely administrative agencies, it is necessary to review whether or not to let employees spend time, even money, to study for a PhD. If there is a civil servant who is passionate about studying, studying after hours and paying for his own studies, it cannot be stopped. People go to school like that because of their passion for science and to later switch to scientific research, not to get a PhD to get promoted. In the criteria for appointing officials, postgraduate training should not be considered a standard, because if they only work as civil servants, they need a different set of skills, not a PhD.

PV:To overcome these limitations, what changes do you think we need to make?

Professor Nguyen Minh Thuyet: First of all, we must rectify postgraduate training, specifically tighten input, carefully check the guidance process, and tighten output.

Second, in the recruitment and appointment of personnel in state administrative agencies, the postgraduate degree standard should not be used as one of the priority criteria for appointment and recruitment.

Third, we should stop awarding academic titles to those who only work in administrative agencies, because these are the ones who “initiate” others to pursue fake degrees. When you work as a government official, where do you have time to teach at universities and be awarded professors or associate professors?

Only those who are directly training should be awarded the title. Fourthly, in terms of society, there must be requirements and evaluations of the work performance of those with degrees and this must be done by the agencies directly managing those with postgraduate degrees.

PV:Thank you, Professor.

According to VOV