'Must eliminate the use of relationships to influence work'

"There are positions that require real competition, there is no consideration of relationships, not only low-level recruitment, but also recruitment at the Deputy Minister level."

Speaking with VOV reporter, Professor Dang Hung Vo - Former Deputy Minister of Natural Resources and Environment pointed out that on the one hand, they tried every way to explain that the apparatus was getting bigger and bigger, on the other hand, they recruited people but there was no real selection, leading to a very large apparatus but poor quality and poor efficiency.

Subsidized thinking "blocks the way" to organize and innovate the apparatus

PV:The issue of innovation, organization and apparatus arrangement for effective and efficient operation has been given special attention by the Party and the State through many policies, resolutions, mechanisms and implementation instructions. However, up to now, the organization and apparatus of the political system is still cumbersome, multi-layered, ineffective and inefficient.... Why is that so, sir?

Professor Dang Hung Vo:Perhaps, a very fundamental reason is that we came from the subsidy period, the subsidy mindset is still very heavy. We approach the market but the apparatus remains almost the same as the subsidy period. We have raised the issue of institutional innovation and streamlining the apparatus many times but it is still difficult to implement because our mindset about the apparatus remaining the same will certainly not be suitable for the market and will not bring efficiency.

Professor Dang Hung Vo - Former Deputy Minister of Natural Resources and Environment

I want to raise the issue that countries around the world also pay great attention to: efficiency, fewer people, but those people must work with very high productivity, only then can we solve the problem of fewer people but the work is still guaranteed and well solved.

PV: At this conference, the Central Committee pointed out many shortcomings in the organizational structure of the Vietnam Fatherland Front, mass organizations, and public service units: the slowness of innovation; the increasingly bloated organization and staff; the unreasonable number of deputies and people enjoying the "rank" regime; the number of indirect service workers is too large while there is a lack of direct professional personnel... According to you, why can't we "arrange" it, sir?

Professor Dang Hung Vo:There are quite basic reasons. I think one of the most basic reasons that governs all activities related to personnel organization is relationships. If we continue to recruit cadres and workers based on relationships, then no apparatus will be able to bear it, because human relationships are numerous and very broad.

Besides, our recruitment mechanism has many innovations but the implementation in reality is still very weak. We also organize civil servant and public employee recruitment exams to select, but when taking the exam, many people told me that it is just a formality. Therefore, in reality, recruiting good people is still not achieved.

Therefore, on the one hand, they try to find ways to explain the increasingly bloated apparatus, on the other hand, they select people but without real selection, leading to a very large apparatus but poor quality and poor performance.

Can organize recruitment exam for Deputy Minister

PV: Reorganizing and rearranging the apparatus will inevitably affect power and interests. But does that mean we cannot reorganize and rearrange the apparatus, sir?

Professor Dang Hung Vo:In fact, even civil servants in the State, when looking at a matter, we do not dare to look directly at the nature of the work, but only look at the form, then we will make a wrong judgment about the content, so we have not hit the target. That is why we repeat the story of streamlining the apparatus, innovating recruitment.

I remember at least 20-30 years ago, we had a very strong push to streamline the apparatus. However, during that time, the majority of capable people asked to leave, while those who remained were those with less ability. After a while, we had to stop because if we continued, all the capable people would leave.

Now we return to the issue of streamlining because the pressure on regular expenditure is too high, if it continues to be maintained, the apparatus will be even worse. Therefore, we must find the fundamental causes. I think that using relationships to control work is something that we must eliminate soon. Second, the way of recruiting, the way of looking at work, the way of arranging people to do work must also change, otherwise the apparatus will be even more bloated, the efficiency of handling work will be weak.

We have been following the direction for a long time in the administrative apparatus, a department, a division must indicate each position, the requirements for people to take on these positions, what conditions, qualifications, expertise, experience... are needed. However, we only set up such a scenario, but the actual implementation does not match that scenario. That is why it can be said that it is very difficult to arrange and streamline the apparatus.

PV:There is no regulation on “rank”, but in many central agencies, there are many applications for enjoying the “rank” title regime for civil servants and public employees. Is “rank” really necessary for the job or for what reasons does it exist, sir?

Professor Dang Hung Vo:First of all, looking at the job, I think that “rank” is unnecessary; the law also does not have regulations on rank. But in reality, there are 2 things that are applied in many places or we still say “circumvent the law”, which is the number of deputies is more than necessary, leading to the situation of 70% being leaders, 30% being employees.

In many units, there are no regulations, so the appointment of deputies is based on the practice of giving out as many benefits as possible. In places where there are regulations on deputies, people use their “ranks” to receive the same salary as deputies. This leads to the reality that there are more officials than people.

"Function" is just a formal solution and we should soon remove it, even the number of deputies should be limited.

PV: There is an opinion that reforming the quality of the administrative apparatus requires applying a healthy competition mechanism to find capable people. What do you think about this opinion?

Professor Dang Hung Vo:I think this is correct. This has been piloted by some provinces through competitive exams for some leadership positions (for example, Quang Ninh) and the Central Government considers this a good measure. However, to make regulations, research is still needed to determine how to select the right people.

In my opinion, this is a direction that needs to be developed, introducing a real competition, without considering relationships, testing and scoring objectively, not only at low levels, but also at the Deputy Minister level. Then we can recruit talented people and, more importantly, avoid the current situation where talented people run from the State to the private sector, even abroad.

PV: In your opinion, to innovate and rearrange the organization of the political system to be streamlined and operate effectively and efficiently, where should we start?

Professor Dang Hung Vo:Many people think that our political system has too many agencies. What we need to do is reform the organizational system, have a certain mindset to be close to the market mechanism, and eliminate the "tail" of subsidies that has been operating in our country for a long time.

To approach the market mechanism, we need to change, especially the recent Central Conference has pointed out that we need to change the way socio-political organizations and the public system and public service operate. The Central Conference's pointing out this is completely correct because these systems are "consuming" a large number of people who have to pay salaries.

PV:Thank you!./.

According to VOV